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Thread: BT Repair Charge

  1. #1
    Member fergiz's Avatar
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    BT Repair Charge

    I had to call BT to get my phone line repaired in December, they told me that if the problem was with BT equipment then I would not be charged but if the problem lay with my own equipment then there would be a fee.

    The BT phone line enters my property upstairs through the frame of the stair window and when BT fitted my line they joined the outside cable to an indoor cable with some sort of "junction box" and ran the cable downstairs to a cupboard where they fitted the main BT box. (The first available box that I can plug a phone into)

    The BT engineer arrived and after about half an hour said he had found two faults, one was at the "junction box" where the line enters my property he said that the problem was dampness that had over 20 years or so has coroded the wiring inside the box. The second fault was at the main BT box inside my premises (downstairs) he didn't mention to me what the problem was with this box, and he left.

    This morning I got my BT phone bill in and they have charged me £184 for repairs that IMO are BT's responsibility and not mine.

    I phoned them up and they said that as there was a problem with dampness at the "junction box" then it is my responsibility.

    I argued that there is no more a problem with dampness at the "junction box" than there would be at any other house in the country, my house isn't damp but condensation is normal near a window, I also suggested that the "junction box" should not have been situated on a window-sill if it was not completely water tight, therefore it was not fit for purpose.

    I then asked them what the problem was with the main BT box? and they said that they had no record that the BT engineer had changed this box (which he definately did) and they said they would investigate and get back to me within 10-12 days.

    I just feel that I am being charged for something that should be BT's responsibility. They installed the line around 20 years ago and everything has a shelflife and needs to be replaced or serviced now and again.

    Any advice would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Security Admin echelon's Avatar
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    its their responsibility up to the nte unit ( the plugin box you say they changed ) and this includes any termination or connection block they use to connect the outside overhead wiring to the internal wiring to the main junction box

    obviously they are not responsible if you have damp issues but I would have thought that from what you have said they are liable up to and including the nte5 junction box which is where their responsibility ends and yours begins

    so I would ask them to get a supervisor to come down and inspect the work and let you know what if any charge there should be and why seeing as its all their equipment or wiring that they have replaced , including the main box which is the demarcation line between them and you

    I would expect that they will waive the charge which is what should have been done by the openreach engineer when he did the work as he was only fixing what was already there and fitted by BT years ago

    my point here is you have a valid reason for not paying and so could threaten to go to ofcom or whatever the new name is and raise it as a dispute. if the damp issue was your problem then you may have to pay some of the charge

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    BT are responsible for all wiring up to the master socket in your property, in fact you are not allowed to touch it - and you have no responsibility for it.

    They may be assuming that the 'junction box' is part of your house extension wiring, and so after the master socket - you must make sure they understand that this junction box is before the master socket.

    It's not common to see these junction boxes on new wiring, but not unusual especially on older installations... I have an external one myself, and it doesn't look very weather resistant to me.
    Last edited by sparky_dog; 05-01-2009 at 04:40 PM. Reason: echelon beat me to it!

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    Member fergiz's Avatar
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    Thanks for that echelon,

    I have no problems with dampness anywhere in my property, at the window-sill where they connected the outside & inside cables they drilled a hole through the window frame to run the cable into my house if anything any moisture will be coming from that as the box is situated about 1cm from the hole they ran the cable through, but the window-sill is never wet, I think it's just been normal corosion that would have occured as a result of moisture in the air.

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    For god sake don't pay it, even if you had known about the damp or corrosion your not allowed to touch that box anyway

    Your not allowed to touch anything before the NET5

    The only time you should be charged is if you call them out and they find a problem with your internal network or any devices in your house phone/router etc


    TNT

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    Member fergiz's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply sparky_dog,

    "They may be assuming that the 'junction box' is part of your house extension wiring, and so after the master socket - you must make sure they understand that this junction box is before the master socket"

    That went through my head as well when I phoned and I did explain to the guy that it wasn't an extention and that it was before the main BT box, he even asked me if I had tried pluging my phone into it and I told him that there was no socket at the box to allow me to plug one in.

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    Security Admin echelon's Avatar
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    they used to fit these connection blocks long before they had plug in units like master and slave sockets and nte5 sockets , and probably before these ppl had a job with bt

    those of us old enough to remember the older wiring systems know that this was normal in the past , and the termination unit had the dropwire on one side and the internal wiring to the master socket on the other side of it

    so make sure you explain this is part of THEIR WIRING between the dp ( the pole or footway box ) and the old master socket , and the changes were on THEIR SIDE which the customer ( yourself ) is not allowed to touch , as pointed out previously

    they fitted it years ago , they decided on what was fitted where , and how the wiring and boxes were to be positioned , and how many , and so they are responsible for how they did it in the first place and any subsequent faults due to old wiring , old connection blocks and old master sockets.

    you are responsible for any internal wiring AFTER the master socket or nte5 , but not before

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    In my experience with BT they always try it on with the £184, even if they know it's their responsibility - they just know some people will pay it. I know two people who've been in this position and in both cases they withdrew the charge after the so-called investigation. It's nothing more than sharp practice, when the all wiring up to and including the box is their responsibility.

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    V.I.P veron57's Avatar
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    It's making me mad just reading your first post. I hate the way things like this can happen and as a honest bill payer you are being taken complete advantage of.

    I think it's incredibly cheeky of them and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.
    Tell them you will switch provider if they dont sort out their obvious mistake quickly.

  10. #10
    Security Admin echelon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veron57 View Post
    Tell them you will switch provider if they dont sort out their obvious mistake quickly.
    how do you work that out when its OPENREACH that have made the charge and its openreach who would still maintain the network no matter which telephone company he went with

    switching telephone service provider may be easier nowadays but the actual connection from the exchange to your house is owned and maintained by openreach so I fail to see how changing a telephone provider is going to help the OP resolve his problem with openreach

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    Senior Member BigDave's Avatar
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    BT are very well known for this sort of thing m8.

    Regards BigDave

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    V.I.P scallywag's Avatar
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    The juction box will be a BT80 and they do get corroded as by nature they are the first point of contact between the dropwire(the external wire) and the white internal 6 wire.If it is corroded by damp then you are lible to charges.
    The engineer should have informed you, you would be charged.The managers are on the bacs of the engineers for TRCs(charges) and the enginneers get put on PIPS(performance improvment programs) if they dont charge.The auld arses seem more likelly not to charge than the newbies trying to make an impression.
    Question the charges and I bet they get dropped.

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    V.I.P veron57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echelon View Post
    how do you work that out when its OPENREACH that have made the charge and its openreach who would still maintain the network no matter which telephone company he went with

    switching telephone service provider may be easier nowadays but the actual connection from the exchange to your house is owned and maintained by openreach so I fail to see how changing a telephone provider is going to help the OP resolve his problem with openreach
    Yeah ok point taken, didn't realise. This only adds to the frustration

  14. #14
    Member fergiz's Avatar
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    Just had a phonecall from them and they say that the charges will be NOT be dropped, they clain to have spoken to the engineer who says that he has replaced internal wiring (lies).

    The girl I spoke to would not evem listen to me and when I asked to speak to someone in higher authority told me that I had to write to the complaints department at the adress on the back of the bill. I lied to her and said I was illiterate (she started the lying) and needed to speak to someone, she told me I would have to get someone to write the letter for me.

    I'm fooking raging.

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    V.I.P crabber's Avatar
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    I would think your best hope is to try to get a visit from a manager, (I bet they wont want to come) and insist that nothing was done to internal wiring. Anyway best of luck.
    On a more general point I wonder how many replies to your post have been made by current or ex BT employees. Several seem to know all about dropwire etc.
    I worked for BT from 1969-1992 before taking voluntary redundancy and becoming a fisherman.
    Also again off topic is that your Dalmatian in your avatar ? my son has one and it is the most lovable and soppy dog imaginable, wanting to sit on your lap like a cat. He does cover everything in little white hairs though.

  16. #16
    Member fergiz's Avatar
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    Hi Crabber,

    I did ask for a manager to come out and show me the "replaced" wiring and I was told that it was not possible, but if anyone had to come out it would invoke another charge????

    I'm typing a letter to them just now, but I doubt I'll get anywhere with BT.


    As for the Dalmation, yes, that's my Domino, he's a wonderful dog and he's so loving and affectionate, I can't go anywhere without him. Apparently in USA they call them "Velcro Dogs" because they stick to their owner like.... well Velcro I suppose.

    Only downsides as you say is the hair gets everywhere, but it's worth it for the companionship they give. oh and you could walk him all day and night and he would still want more.

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    V.I.P scallywag's Avatar
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    Tell them their is a fookin big dirty handmark you have just noticed on the back of your nice clean curtains which you want replacing for a grand a pr.It must have been the engineers because it is far too big for anyones in the household. See if they send a field manager out then

  18. #18
    Member fergiz's Avatar
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    Just another thing, I pay BT by direct debit, I only have the line rental with them and my direct debit request has gone up from £13/month to £55/month should I cancel the direct debit and just pay line rental charges by cheque or should I pay in the hope that I will get it sorted out?

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    I can understand what scallywag is saying, that a repair would be chargeable if they had replaced an internal BT35/BT80 connection box due to damage caused by damp.

    However, if they are maintaining that they have replaced internal (post master socket) wiring, and you are absolutely certain they have not, then I am sure you could dispute the charges purely on that basis. If you don't get any joy from them, then you might consider a complaint to Ofcom.

    The response you have received from BT does not surprise me. Twice in the past I have had to contact BT to discuss account errors, and both times I have found them extremely unhelpful, bordering on arrogant and patronising. I was a BT customer for many years, but couldn't wait to move my line rental away from them as soon as it was possible. I know BT/Openreach still provide the line, but at least I don't have to deal with their call centres and overly complicated billing...

    My current provider is probably just as inept as BT, but at least they try to sound like they want to help.

    FWIW, I've never worked for BT, although maintaining PABX wiring was part of my job for some years.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fergiz View Post
    Just another thing, I pay BT by direct debit, I only have the line rental with them and my direct debit request has gone up from £13/month to £55/month should I cancel the direct debit and just pay line rental charges by cheque or should I pay in the hope that I will get it sorted out?
    Unless you can get some agreement with BT or Ofcom that the disputed charges will be frozen, I can't see how you can withhold the payment. BT will simply add late payment fees to your account, and eventually disconnect you.

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