CubeRevo HD PSU repair

Attachment 66292Attachment 66293Attachment 66294Attachment 66295
A few things to report, but I’ll mention the main points first.
1 We are back to where we were two weeks ago. I’ve fitted a replacement fuse at F81 and I’m now getting the same voltages at the output end of the PSU board as before i.e. all except 3SV and 5V, and no SATA to power a HDD. With a link between R98 and R95, I get them all, and SATA works. So the readings in the pic I posted on Jan 7th are still valid.
2 With the main board connected, we still get +5VS.
3 I haven’t cut continuity to the transformer on the front panel board yet in order to do this check. Connecting both sets of wires to the front panel again kills +5VS.
4 However, joining only the longer connector, which carries +5VS produces a different result. First, I get an LED flashing slowly in the standby switch, but nothing on the display. Also we still have 5.1V on +5VS on the PSU Board (J7).
Pics attached of the new fuse, and repaired solder on L81. Also rest of PSU in case its useful.
A few other points.
Voltage from hotside heatsink to TH61 is 333V.
I checked all the diodes I could find and all were OK except:
D21 about 0.09V in both directions
D24 0.4V in one direction, 1.4V in the other.
D41, D42, D43 infinity in both directions, but I’m not confident about those readings. Once D43 showed OK.
To practice I took a capacitator off a redundant PCI card from an old computer. As I don’t have a capacitance meter, I did a resistance check and watched the readings start low and steadily climb; switched the leads and same again. I don’t know its rating – it’s just labelled SM1106. There’s another one labelled KM1106. On another card, I’ve got one rated 222µF and 16V.

This is great news, all supplies up again and a flashing LED. At long last a sign of life!
We can ignore the meaning of the flashing for now since we are powering on in an abnormal way, I assume the R98/R95 link is still present.

I was a little concerned by your readings of D21 but after checking there is a 100R resistor (R21) across C22 which would probably explain that.
I don't see anything too worrying in your pics so I guess we need to remove C21 and check it using the resistance check method.
I notice from your pics that C22 is a different value to C21.
For completeness I would suggest removing and testing C22 as well.

I need to point out that these capacitors are polarised so when replacing them they need to be fitted the correct way around.
Just to confuse everyone it is usual for the negative lead to be marked rather than the positive so be careful.
You can always check the orientation in you pics before fitting them.

If C21 is faulty and you don't have the right value you may be able to use the 220uF 16V you found for now but we cannot be sure if this will work properly.
Of course you can always order a new one - perhaps I am just getting a little impatient!

While you have C21 and C22 removed I suggest you remove R21 as well you should then hopefully be able to test D21. You will need to unplug the motherboard. This way we can be sure of everything in the 5VS supply, the only other component is L21 which is not a worry.

I looked at some old caps I had removed from a PSU a while ago.
They seemed OK using the resistance test, the tops were not bulging but the bottoms were!
The PSU at the time was working OK but I noticed that the ends of these caps felt quite hot so I replaced them anyway.

OK, I’ve taken C21 and C22 off the board.
C21 resistance starts in the 8MΩ range and then GOES DOWN. Same with probes reversed. Repeated the check a couple of times after shorting with a pair of pliers to discharge. Same patterns with different numbers.
C22 shows resistances going up. Unfortunately, I’m not well equipped here and just used an ordinary G-Clamp to hold the capacitors in place, and C22 is a bit too small and got squashed in the process – pic attached. So it may be damaged.
As you know, C21 is rated 370µF and 10v, and I’ve got one rated 222µF and 16V. C22 shows 22µF and 50v. I’ve got one rated 22µF and 16v. Shall I go ahead trying these if only on a temporary basis?
I’ll remove R21 later today
Attachment 66297

Both caps should only have 5V on them so the caps you have are worth a try.
Your squashed C22 may be ok but it's safer to use the 16V one you have.

C21 doesn't seem too healthy - don't know why it should behave like that!
So chuck the caps in, observing polarity of course, I don't think we have anything to lose.

If you feel the need too check D21 remove it and check it off board, you may find it's a bit tight in the holes so be careful.
I suggested removing R21 as it would be easier but you need the caps out to test D21 in circuit properly.

Feeling optamistic about this, if 5VS is ok with everything plugged in remove the link on R95/98 and see if it powers up from standby button.

Good luck!

Supplementary info:
I disconnected R21, and D21 showed 1.5v and infinity, albeit the latter with a an occasional flash of voltage.
R21 reconnected and reads 95Ω. While R22 shows 3.28kΩ. Hope nothing to worry about there.

Will try other caps tomorrow - probably late afternoon.

D21 looks OK although I would expect less than 0.6V but infinity one way is always good.

R21 is 100R resistor and R22 is 3K3 (3.3K) but is on the -25V line.

The 220uF you are going to try is half the original value (470uF) but I will be very surprised if does not work or at least show an improvement.
So tomorrow is the big day!

Sorry, I should have said 0.15v.
And, yes I was puzzled by 50V given thAttachment 66299at the largest output voltage we've got is 30, but what do I lnow?. But just for you to double check, here’s a better pic. 5, small space (no decimal point), bigger space V; next line 2, same small space, 2, bigger space, µF. Yeah, not easy to understand these Chinese!

That's more like it 0.15V these diodes are fast recovery diodes and have lower forward voltage drop than normal silicon diodes (0.6V).
Switch mode power supplies run at something like 40 to 70KHz and hence the need for fast recover diodes

I cannot understand why they used 50V cap for C22 unless they just had a stock of them hanging around.
I agree it looks like 50V in your pic.

You have reminded me of something that happened to me a long time ago.
I needed a cap for a 36V supply I was making and found what I thought was a 63V cap.
When the supply had been running for a while I could smell something getting hot but could not work out what it was.
Then all of sudden there was a load bang and there was silver paper everywhere around the room.
The case of the cap had popped off causing the bang and the insides of the cap were scattered around the room.
When I found the case of the cap I looked closer and found there was a very faint decimal point between the 6 and the 3. It was only rated at 6.3V

Lol - that wouldn't have happened to me stroker! I wouldn't even have known what a 63v supply was if it hit me in the face - come to think of it a few other things did hit you in the face or got close.
Anyway, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

I’ve found I also have a cap rated 300µF and 25v. Would that be better than 222µF and 16V?

And now I've found on that is actually rated 22µF and 50v - on a simple modem card.

The 300uF 25V would be better.

Use the 22uF 50V (just because it's the same as the old one) unless you want to keep the modem card intact.

Sorry for the delay in answering I've been out and about.

Unfortunately, I’ve hit a snag here. I’ve now spent an hour and a half, maybe two hours making five attempts to get old capacitors off. They all have pins not folded over but vertical. I clear the solder off the underside, but the components are not loose. I wiggle a bit – wiggle the capacitors that is – and I can lift the 1mm or 2. With the first I tried to pull it up, fearing that the leads would simply pull away from the cap, and in fact that was what happened. Again unfortunately that was the 22µF and 50v one, and it was the only one I have. Blast! Should have tried one of the others where I have several to play with.
The best I’ve been able to do is remove the solder and then gouge a hole through the board with a bradawl. That partially worked with two, but perhaps inevitably one of the leads got partially broken in each case.
Any tips someone?

Just a thought, should we get a replacement C21 anyway, because if we find a solution, we might as well do a like for like? And if it comes to C22, should we go for a 50v version?

Damn I was hoping you won't have this problem!

I believe you have some electrical knowledge so you will understand that high currents need heavy conductors or cables.
If they are not heavy enough you will have a large voltage drop along them or at the extreme they will burn out like fuses.
There are heavy currents involved in electronics especially PC motherboards.
You won't see the heavy conductors because they are buried in the internal layers of the board.
These are usually referred to as power planes and ground planes.
Heavy conductors will conduct heat as well as electrical current and act like a heatsink absorbing the heat from your soldering iron.
So to solder on these power planes you need much more heat than usual, so you need a high power soldering iron.

I think you have a large soldering iron, perhaps you could use this to heat both leads at the same time while adding more solder.
Once the solder is fluid in both holes you then pull the component out - be careful it will be bloody hot!

Another possibility which will sound quite extreme is to use a hot air gun which is normally used for paint stripping.
Again add fresh solder to the solder joints and perhaps some flux as well, apply heat with the gun.
As above pull the component out when the solder is flowing freely.
Using this method a lot of nasty fumes may be produced so do it in a well ventilated area.

If all this seems a bit too much I suggest you use the 222uF and the lower voltage 22uF caps you already have.
Fit the caps lifted a little off the board so they are easier to remove if/when you need to.

It won't hurt to get the correct values for the caps - they don't cost much.
You could order them anyway if you don't use one or other of them it won't be a big deal.
I was just hoping to see the thing running sooner rather than wait for new caps to arrive.
I guess a few more days won't be such a big deal if you'd rather go down that route.

Actually my 22µF and 222 µF caps are on a PCI card and fixed the same way. Anyway, before trying the extra heat methods, I decided to do the bradawl gouging method another go and succeeded. Bet you they don’t teach that in college! So I had a 330µF (not 300 as I said before), showing OK in the resistance test, for C21. The 22µF ones weren’t up to the job because the leads were too short. The one I took out of C22 has long leads which are bent out to span the gap. So I put the old one back, along with the 330µF one in C21.
Powered up with the R98/R95 link still in place and just the one connector to the front panel. OK, same as where we were – flashing LED at the front, SATA powered.
Removed the link, and still OK – LED and SATA working.
So, joined the other connector to the front panel. Up to now, that would have killed off +5VS – but not this time! We still have 5.1V between J7 and GND, SATA working and the flashing LED. We also have 2.4v at P/S – J9 - and a steady 11.9v at the fan header – it’s just the fan doesn’t turn
So great work Stroker – looks like your deduction that C21 was faulty has been proved right.
We’re not there yet though. Nothing else shows on the front panel and the standby switch has no effect. I haven’t finished cutting the track between +5VS and the transformer on the front board.

Don't bother with the track cut now, I wanted to do that because I thought the fault causing the 5VS problem was on the front panel. It looked like you almost cut it anyway, check if 5VS still gets to the middle connector of the transformer on the front panel. If there is no continuity bridge the track-cut with a solid piece of wire you will have to scratch the solder resist from the track each side of the cut first so you can solder the wire to it. The track should appear as copper with the solder resist removed.

I think some boxes start up fully when first powered up and not in standby which would explain the HDD running, but this did not happen before, this could be because we now have a stable 5VS. Then why does't the fan run - does it comes on at a certain temperature or run continuously?

I noticed some time ago there is a coin cell on the motherboard like used on PC motherboards. I would expect this to support the RTC (real time clock) when the box is powered off but it could also power the memory containing the boxes firmware if the box use volatile memory. They usually use non-volatile memory which retains info when power is removed. Anyway easy thing to do is check the cell/battery should be 3V I guess - if it's dead you will need to replace it.

The flashing LED may suggest a firmware problem or so I read somewhere.

Do some searching on how to flash the firmware/software, I am sure I read that you can do it from a USB stick and you press certain buttons when powering up and you get a response from the display saying USB or FLSH or something. I will try to find where I read this and let you know but I expect it's easy enough to find this on satpimps. Anyway what I am looking for is some reaction from the box that would suggest flashing may be possible. Don't rush into flashing just yet - we need to consider the risks if there are any. You will need to find software to flash anyway but lets make sure we know what we are doing before we try.

Perhaps someone else could give us some advice on the best way to flash the box assuming we need to.

I'm going to get some grub now so may be gone for up to an hour.

Trying to post a PDF file - software update is on page 30.

The "Hard Turnoff" by pressing OK and Standby may be interesting to try.
Then press and hold standby until display reads booting.

Of course we don't know yet if the display is working!

This was just ready to go off when I got your last post.
First, I’ve checked that we have continuity to the transformer on the front panel.
The fan is 12v and I’m getting a steady 11.9v at the header, so I assume the fan is faulty. I can try another 12v fan I’ve got lying around, but it has a different plug so would need snipping the wires.
Coin battery is showing 2.8v.
Sorry you took the trouble to get the manual, I have it here. Of course, the last time I flashed the firmware, I had the front display, but I pretended just now I was going to do it again. The procedure is power: down at the back – “cold on/off” they call it, then power back on and hold down the power (standby) and OK buttons. This stopped the SATA drive, but we still had the 5VS voltage and 2.4v at P/S. If you think this is worth pursuing, I suppose I have to put everything back together and connect to TV and/or PC.

P.S.
Also holding down standby and OK buttons, the LED changed from flashing to steady.

That's a good sign - at least it has responded to the keys being pressed.

Perhaps we need to bite the bullet and hope for the best if you think you can flash the box blind.
I think we have probably gone as far as we can hardware wise apart from perhaps the display but that may be controlled by the firmware so if that is corrupted we won't get a display until we flash the box. The problem is how do you know when it's finished flashing I would assume the new firmware only starts running when you power off and on!

I see they mention files with "no_boot" in the name I think these will flash without over-writing the basic boot software.
The basic boot software is critical if we corrupt it we will be in more trouble, so if you can find a no-boot version to flash I think that would be the best to try.
Note I am not familiar with this box so what I have just said may be crap!

I've followed this tread, with big intress.. My ip9000hd was totaly dead. so I tried to desoldered the green L something on display Board. The result was flashing flashing Power led. So I followed you to on the tread and changed the c21 470uf 10 vith a New one, New value 470uf 16v. And then everything worked again. I tried to mesure the old capasitor and did really not see any fault With an ohm meter... Until I compared it to an New one. The old capasitor used looooong time to get carged compared to the New one.
So to you both Stoker and jphilweybr thank you for the help and Greetings from Norway

Thank you rottan0 – especially good to have someone other than Stroker or me contributing to this thread. I’ve ordered a 470µF cap so maybe that will make a difference.
Meanwhile I’ve been checking on firmware and all the images I have are noboot_nnnn – or so I gaily thought when I started writing this post. Then when I accessed all those I have on my computer, I got the message ”The disk image file is corrupted”. So I downloaded two more from this site kindly uploaded by dypcdiver and trying to open them, I get the same message. Blast (not the word I used) is this a Win10 problem?
I still have a Win7 system, but needs fundamental repair, and an XP system which involves shutting down the computer and reconnecting a drive.
Has anybody else come across this problem?

I think you will find that windows sees files with extension img as a disc image file - used for backup/restore of hard drives.
I expect you can ignore the error message, copy the file to the USB stick, rename it etc and then perform your magic.

Well I’ve tried the blind firmware approach without success Without the display, I could only try a USB stick with a no_boot image, and hold down standby and OK buttons – once leaving for half an hour or so. There is an effect in that the LED changes to steady but nothing else that I discern.
Other things I noticed:
Powering off at the mains then back up did produce a momentary stripe on the TV screen. Twice it produced speech sound – so must have switched from AV1 to TV for say half a second.
SATA drive not working at all – but maybe the failing HDD I used has even stopped ticking now.

Yes it was not going to be easy!

I checked the manual is says press and hold standby while powering on releasing the button when "booting" is displayed - how long would that take, a few seconds?
Then press the up arrow button - the display shows "USB Upgrade" and then the update starts automatically.
It would help if your USB stick has an activity LED then you would see if something is happening.
I hope you remembered to rename the file to usb_update.img
Other than that I think the USB should only have that file on it and presumably formatted as FAT32.
Remember if anything is wrong it will not even try to flash.

There are other methods mentioned in the manual. Over the internet from the box itself - a none starter for us!
Using flash tools remotely from PC connected via USB - you need to get "USB Upgrade" on the display so probably not viable either.

Can I assume the LED still flashes on power up?

It might be worth bridging the track cut we made anyway - it's worth a try!
Be careful not to short the track to the surrounding copper area (probably 0V) - on the other side of the dark lines you mentioned.
Scratch the solder resist from the track each side of the cut - should now be bare copper - coat with solder and solder a solid wire across the break.

You can also try measuring the transformer secondary (on the front panel) voltage on the 2 pins side of the transformer this will be ac not sure what voltage to expect, maybe up to 200V, but that is a very wild guess!

Thanks yes tried that. From memory, it takes two or three seconds, so I’ve given it about ten, and then left it alone for twenty minutes or so. I’ve also tried a couple of variants, for instance the Cube Revo manual says follow with the right arrow button - with the same result. Actually, the front LED goes off, but we still have our voltages, and pressing the standby button has no effect.
I could re-solder the track, but we are getting a steady 5.11v at the transformer pins.
I’ve also checked other voltages on the front pcb. The longer connector has 11wires. One is GND, one 16.1v, one 22.3v, one 24.6v (which may be –ve), five have 5.1v and two have nothing. There are no voltages on the shorter connector.

Hey, I didn’t see the last sentence of Stroker’s post.
Well guess what – no AC voltage! That Stroker may be on to something again.
It’s labelled M210VFD.

Hang on, I’d better calm down.
Stroker when you said measure the AC voltage, I was expecting one pin to be N and the other to be L, so tried both ways round. Is that right, I’m not expecting a voltage between here and the chassis?

Yes just between the 2 pins of the transformer - it looks like it's covered in crap you may need to clean it

Yes, that’s the one you thought was covered in silicone. In fact I did my best to try for readings from the top of the pins, and in any case the leads looked clean, the slight mess was only on the surface of the board. I’ve done a bit of scraping with a Stanley knife, and also got some contacts into the leads on the component side of the board, and still no voltage. The readings dance around and then run down to zero, except this time they stabilised at about 0.7v – once in each direction.
On another site, someone reported a problem with a chip on the main board. Mine is perfectly clean and looks OK. The pic shows shades of brown, but that must be the light; in fact it’s black, clear white lettering and sparkling leads.
I’m being a bit naughty here. I keep wanting to try anything that’s suggested, but it means I’m neglecting other things. So, must discipline myself and take a couple of days off. Apologies to Stroker, who has been amazing and I suspect is even more impatient and frustrated than I am!
Attachment 66321

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rottan0

I've followed this tread, with big intress.. My ip9000hd was totaly dead. so I tried to desoldered the green L something on display Board. The result was flashing flashing Power led. So I followed you to on the tread and changed the c21 470uf 10 vith a New one, New value 470uf 16v. And then everything worked again. I tried to mesure the old capasitor and did really not see any fault With an ohm meter... Until I compared it to an New one. The old capasitor used looooong time to get carged compared to the New one.

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THX

Already mentioned in the first few thread posts ( capacitor fault ).

Or dry solderering joint/points ( not soldered fast to the CB )

Edit

_http://handycrowd.com/diy-tip-fix-dry-solder-joints-on-electrical-circuit-boards/

Jphilwetbr I agree the chip looks ok as far as I can see from that pic.
I know you want to spend less time on this and that's ok but perhaps you could find a short time in the evening to try a thing or two.

Found this advice about flashing on another site which may be worth a try (copy and pasted):-
1. we strongly recommend to format your USB memory stick before the new image copy in it, otherwise, it may happen "ER10".
2. You have to change the name of updated sw into "usb_update.img" when you upgrade the sw by the USB memory stick.

It may also be useful to refit the link on R95/98.

Another thing is connect the box to your network via ethernet and see if you can see it on the network.
If you can you may be able to access the web interface of the box by typing its IP address into your browser.
You could also try to access it with an FTP client.
We are just looking for signs of life at the moment.

Finally can you remember if you have installed uboot in the past or does it just have the standard boot loader?

Thanks Stroker.
First I’ll answer the one Attachment 66327question I can. The only upgrade I’ve done in the past is to upload an image. It may not even have been a new one. These machines were known to go into “Panic” mode – usually when you were trying to list media (items I’d recorded from TV), so you lost what you were doing and had to start again. Re-loading the image was one way of dealing with it – only temporarily IIRC. I followed the instructions in the CubeRevo manual, pic attached. So, no I had never heard of uboot or boot loader until this week.
I’ll get on with your other suggestions, but I really think I need to give it an uninterrupted couple of hours at least, and that will not be for a couple of days. Sorry! As an aside, I never got the machine on to my network. There was some Catch 22 involving the PC Editor software, and I didn’t get into Linux, despite buying the box with my eyes open. But now that you mention it, I didn’t try Ethernet – just wi-fi.
My next move will be when the replacement capacitors arrive. I also have a replacement IC91
Well, there you are. I said I’d discipline myself and take a break, but couldn’t stop myself from posting this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jphilweybr

My next move will be when the replacement capacitors arrive.

---

Remember Capacitor polarity ( +/- ) important.

Good luck

Jphilwetbr were you flashing with a USB stick?

There is another method using a USB printer type cable (square end) and using flashtools V1.02 - it is shown on the same page of the manual you posted.
Using this method you can see the progress of the flashing on your PC rather than doing it blind.
I tried to attach flashtools but cannot get it to upload let me know if you need it and I will email it to you.

Thanks.
Well I've been unable to find a version to download, so yes please, email one.
Very intermittent internet access this week and next.